00:00
Hi, welcome to Power of the Network. I'm your host, Tim Locker, Vice President of Broadband here at CBM. I'm excited about today's episode. I get to bring an old friend into the studio and have a conversation, Mr. Michael Keene, legacy in the industry. I'm super excited to have him here. We've spent a lot of time in the trenches over the years and I'm excited to bring this one to you.
00:27
Michael, thank you so much for joining us. It's great to have you here. We've known each other a long time, long time. You've known your father a long time. Yep. Yep. retired out of the industry, what? Four years now? Four years now. years now? Yes. Well, like I said, I can't thank you enough. I appreciate you coming down and it's great to have a dear friend on the show. you know, there's a reason that I brought you down.
01:00
You've done a lot with me personally, you've done a lot with our company over the years, and you're very well respected from me. And I look at you as a mentor and a great dear friend. And so I just think it's only appropriate that you're on here because I appreciate so much of things that you've done. And I wanted to highlight.
01:25
some of those things as we get through today. Is this over now? No. Sorry. I didn't mean to get sentimental and whatever, but you've done so much for me and I just wanted to say thank you for everything over the years. Well, I appreciate that a lot, but this relationship really does come from you, Dad. I've known him for probably 10 years longer than you, I would guess, in the industry.
01:55
I think that it goes hand in hand and all the feelings are mutual. Yeah, well thank you. Yeah. So if you were to describe yourself with one word, what would that word be? Honest. I would agree with that. I would agree with that. I've got two words that come to mind. Okay. First one is grinder. Okay.
02:21
So, you know, the one thing I picked up from you and I noticed is just the absolute consistency, day to day, week to week, year over year, going out, seeing customers, and just being 100 % consistent. You think that's accurate?
02:41
In the industry and as long as I was employed in sales, would, I think that I would agree with that. Yes. Thank you. How much do you think that consistency, how big of a part of your success was, was that? A hundred percent. And so many folks don't have that drive or that grind as you explained. And only, I don't know if it's the company that they work for. They don't have the time.
03:09
or it's not there anymore. Yeah. Where do you think that quality was? Where did you get that? Where was that instilled in Michael? Well, I don't know how far I with this. I left home when I was 16 years old and I had to learn how to work. Yeah. And so, and I did. Yeah. And it was me. I had to take care of myself. Yeah. So,
03:39
challenge, adversity, and you just faced it head on and have never looked back. That's exactly right. And I'm not an educated person. I have a high school degree and that's all I have. And it's just hard work. Now from that, from that early age, you kind of started buying and selling and wheeling and dealing and doing a bunch of different things, right? From an early age. That's absolutely correct. mean...
04:07
What kind of stuff would you get into? Like when you were younger and versus now? Well, I've been buying and selling cars and motorcycles since I was 14 years old. Yeah. And I traded a boat for a 49 Chevy pickup when I was 14 years old. Where'd you come up with the boat? It was my dad's. It was your dad's? But he was a sales guy on the road and I knew that I...
04:37
I wouldn't have much grief from that. He liked the boat more than he did the boat. So did you just keep the truck? Did you flip that? My dad took it and he had it four or five years. then he sold it. It was his boat. But that got the train started. It did, yes.
05:05
Still, so what kind of things are you into now in terms of side deals and? Well, I'm doing a lot of woodworking for a breast cancer foundation charity and I enjoy that. It's actually my daughter-in-law's foundation from her family. Okay. And what's the foundation? Pink Tractor. The Pink Tractor? It's in St. Charles, St. Mary's, Iowa. Okay. And it's very successful and I just build things, bars.
05:34
tables, kitchen islands, and donate and give them away and they sell it and it's a charity. And with that being said, my daughter-in-law's mother died the founder of this foundation two weeks before their fundraiser last year. So it hasn't been a year yet. And of breast cancer. It is terrible.
06:01
Well, I'm glad you're contributing to that and doing your fair share. Well, it's not a fair share. Well, it's kind of a thing. It is something that I'm helping and it's a heart warm thing. And so, and I think that as a family member, that it really comes deep. Yeah. And so, and our son helps and our daughter helps. We're making things and.
06:31
I have hard times getting things out of my house. That's what parents are for, right? Yeah, that's for sure. speaking of that, what was, you know, on the road, you know, you retired from Huntel Engineering, spent how many years with them? Five, six years. or six years with them. And prior to that, you were with Power and Telephone. 31 years. 31 years.
06:58
Started in the warehouse. Started in the warehouse. So, on the road for 20 some years? 29. 29 years. Well, them. No, 27 years. 27 years. what were some of your biggest challenges on the road, having a family at home? How did you balance all that?
07:23
Well, really, Jill did all the balance. We've been together, it'd be 50 years this in September. so Jill has all of that. And I just went out on the road and sold and helped support the family. And that's really it. So there's becoming a theme on this show when I ask that question. Apparently, behind every good salesman is a good wife. That's absolutely correct.
07:51
You know, it just can't work any other way. Well, to be a guy on the road, you have to have a good network at home. Yeah. Because you've got to be dialed in and focused and driven. If you've got things pulling at you and pulling at you and trying to get you back home, it's tough to do your job. It's hard to be successful. Well, in all the years, there's been different kinds of folks that would travel with me or I would travel with them. And their biggest...
08:20
Concern is what's going on at home. Yeah, and I never had to worry about that Yeah, and it's I knew that everything was fine and except all 50 years this year. Yeah, that's incredible Congratulations. Thank you. 71 obvious. I'm 71 now. Yeah, and It's a I think it's fun. Yeah So I said I had two words that come to mind you did we've only covered one. Okay the the second one is
08:49
Twizzler. Tell everybody about the Twizzlers. Folks in the industry know, but others the bottom line is people would try to take chocolate, try to take fruit, try to take something to the office, and it doesn't go very far. The chocolate melts in your car. Yeah. But you take a package with 35 to 50 pieces in it, everybody gets to share it. And I've given that away for
09:17
So pretty much every time you walked into a customer's office, you dropped off a bag of It was very inexpensive. Even the ink pens that we try to give away cost more than that bag of licorice. And everybody gets to enjoy it. It's a great calling card and it's exactly what I'm known for, that bag of licorice. I know when I told Sarah that you were going to be on the show and she's like, did you see how many licorice? So well, I'm sure.
09:45
Well, I bought 400 bags one time and it was the whole house smelled of licorice for months. It was a dollar. No, I think it's great because I mean, anytime one of your customers sees a bag of Twizzlers. Michael was there. Yeah. And they know that and they think even if they're somewhere else, they still think of you.
10:15
I do keep some around because if I hit the road and I know I'm just traveling, I'll stop in and see somebody and leave a bag of liquor, whether they're or not. And then they know that I was there. What started that? What triggered you? You just thought, want to be different. I want to do something. Do you remember when it started? Yeah. I just wanted to have the smile from the entrance when you come in. And it was mostly for the...
10:43
office staff because they rarely get things. Things they aren't given. get all those, that stuff goes to the back room for the techs. Yeah. And so this was my gift to the front office. Yeah. To the gatekeepers. The gatekeepers. I was always able to get in. Yeah. As you witnessed. Yeah. No, it was great. You know, we did so much over the years and I, like I said, I really appreciate what we've done. and, uh, when you brought up the honesty, that's,
11:12
I totally agree with that too, because there's really nothing hidden from your thoughts a lot of times, right? That's correct. If there's one thing you're going to get, you're going to get the truth. You're going to get the truth. Yeah. Or an opinion. Yep, exactly. You know what? You've always been kind of a storyteller. There's always something going on. What's the most recent thing that comes to mind that
11:42
just was odd or just a little story from, you know, what's been happening.
11:50
Well, I don't know that I can answer that because I've been gone so long now, especially even going into engineering was entirely different from a door to door sales. But I was just honored in the Iowa Communications Alliance with a lifetime membership. I'd heard that. I was going to ask you about that. expand on that. What does that mean?
12:15
I don't know how I qualified for it other than I was on committees for so many years. I was a sales guy and not on there. I wasn't a telephone manager or ... Other than a lawyer and an accountant, I'm the only salesperson that's ever been
12:37
I'm honored with this and I take it with great honor. But it's a beautiful plaque and little china crystal thing that they gave me. It's really cool. It's something that I believe that I've worked for over the years and tried to keep that level of professionalism in the sales and with folks and follow up and all the above. Well, I think it does say a lot about what you've done for the industry.
13:07
over the years and certainly appreciated by everyone. Maybe not everyone, but most people in industry understand. I don't think I had many enemies, but I had people that wished that I wasn't in sales.
13:25
Yep, yep. And I know, talk a little bit about your relationship with our own Brett Cooper. You two were competitors. He was one that didn't, he would have liked to see me not be in sales. But there's also a mutual respect there that you guys understood. That's correct. Even as a competitor, if one of my competitors were broke down on the highway, I would stop and help him.
13:54
And there are folks that would just drive right on by and laugh, put their window down. And I think that Brett Cooper would reciprocate the same thing. There's always been that level of respect between us and even some of the other folks along the way. Bob Mattson from North Supply. was the same way. He and I had a great relationship. We're competitors and we just were honest with each other and our salespeople, our customers appreciated that relationships.
14:24
when they come to a meeting and you see their vendors setting together, there's trust there. Be friends, be honest with you. We're all family members. Yeah. Well, it's such a small industry. I've always, I'm competitive, but I also understand you're not going to get every deal. And if you get caught up in the weeds over every tiny little detail of a deal, there's just not room for that.
14:53
There's room for competition. Everybody's going to win some, you're going to lose some. Just don't sweat the small stuff, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. There's some truth to that, but the economy has changed in such a way that it gets down to such fine lines in sales that it's even hard for the companies to put people on the road because of that expense and that cost. I think that is...
15:22
That's a difficult thing for the distributors. The cost of travel. Talk about how important your relationships were. I know in sales, relationships are everything. But do you think from the beginning of your career towards the end of your career, is there a change in the value of those relationships? Or there's certainly been a change in purchasing behaviors.
15:51
Yeah, the people that are purchasing now, it's, there's no relationship involved with the sale. It is, I believe it comes to cost. And is that driven from their office? I don't know that. If it's something that they feel that they need to save their company as much money as possible, but the loyalty and the sale is no longer on the table. That's an opinion. And so.
16:20
But it's not just cost, because just as soon as there's a problem, they need to have trust. Yes. From their salesperson and the willingness to be there to help them with the problem. But when you can't get something, you know, you just can't get it. Yeah. But there has to be trust. Yeah. My dad always said, quality is remembered long after price is forgotten. That's exactly right.
16:47
your dad and I had a lot of those values together as far as I was concerned. Yeah, yeah, for sure. yeah, that's the challenge. Obviously, cost is important. You save a penny here and there, it all adds up. But boy, that's one of the biggest challenges today, I think, is just that mindset of not understanding the value on the back end, what people can offer.
17:17
from a salesperson, did you, in the back of your mind, you know, okay, had to, this deal was really cheap or they really beat me up. Did that affect your level of service on the backend or could you separate that and still?
17:37
I think that's really a good question and I don't know that I separated it, but I was more direct about it and that the fact that, we can do this. But let's remember what this was. that's right. And or otherwise, I like to be at the point of just saying, I can't do it. And the lesson to that.
18:01
is when they do buy from the low price and they don't get the service. Power and telephone is what probably, I think they're started in 63, so however many years that is, they allowed us to give that service. Sometimes the price didn't affect our service. And that's a nice thing to have. And so much of, from my perspective, being a rep,
18:30
you know, we don't necessarily deal with the price that much, you know, it's because it's, you know, our products are sold through distribution. So now we still go back to the factory and work on deals, et cetera. Of course by volume. But, you know, it's been a little bit different where we're not beat up on price directly. Right. You know, but when, you're beat up on it, it still comes back to whether we, you know, there's three players on the price, then it's.
19:00
who's ever the hungriest or there are folks that just don't care. But they don't offer the service and they also don't offer hundreds of thousands of items. But yeah, it's still price driven a lot of times.
19:21
You know what makes CBM different is our ESOP. We're an employee-owned company. Our employees, we always say, act like an owner. Everybody's empowered to do the right thing for the customers, for the manufacturers. We serve the utility market, the commercial industrial market, and the communication market here in the Midwest. If you need representation from an awesome firm with great sales folks, look no further than CBM. You can find us here at cbmrep.com.
19:55
Who would be one of your biggest mentors? There's probably a few. Well, first I would probably start by saying Jim Drain, who is one of our supervisors and vice presidents of Power and Telephone. And that's what all this goes back to. mean, really, it's Power and Tele.
20:13
But Doug McPhee at Power & Tell, again, is an incredible mentor to a lot of people. He really is. One of the kindest people on the planet. There's no words to define Doug McPhee other than an honest and, you know, even he would sell you. He couldn't outsell me. Even Doug would say it, you know. Sometimes that darn Michael.
20:41
But yeah, I would say Jim Drain and Doug McPhee are two of my people that I respected the most. Yeah. No, that's great. That's great. Do you, I mean, you've obviously affected me and my career. Are there other folks that you've mentored or that you're aware of? Well, there's been lots of folks that have traveled with me and whether or not I left an impression with them or the...
21:11
you know, you, the honesty thing that you keep bringing up or other folks, that's what it is. so I'm sure that there's folks out there. Yes. But I can't put names on them right now, but you have to work for it for that reputation. so for, get that phone call. They know that that entity, that group will work hard for us.
21:41
And that's what the distributors do in general. so if they're salespeople have freedom. Freedom as a salesperson is a wonderful thing.
21:56
But it's also got to be to the right person that can handle that freedom, that's going to get up and go call on as many, I've never seen anybody that's been more consistent, know, calling on as many companies as you did day after day after day, week after week. And that freedom's great. But you got to have that drive to do it, right? I've never come in off of the road because of the weather. I've never not left on Monday morning because of the weather.
22:26
in all the years. That's incredible because I cannot say that. There's been a few times where I've looked at it and I, early on, I would go and then I'd get out there and I'm like, what am I doing? And so I have, you know, rescheduled some things, you know, in the last few years because of it, but that's incredible. I left, but I did return one morning.
22:52
Yeah. There was a senior person parked in the middle of the road in horrible whiteout and they were panicked and freaked out. Yeah. And I come up on the back of this into this whiteout and nearly rear ended this vehicle. I turned around and went home until about noon and I went back out, but I did leave that day. That's incredible. No major accidents over the years? I've never had a ticket or an accident. That's awesome. In all the years.
23:23
I got pulled over for four miles over the speed limit in Missouri. Four miles. I was lucky a couple of times back to back days. was pulled over by a, I guess it would have been a probably Marion County, it was up by Cedar Rapids, sheriff. And I think I was 15 over.
23:48
and got a warning. got a warning. And then the very next day was pulled over by a Missouri trooper doing 15 miles or 20 and got another warning back to back. And then I was like, yeah, maybe I better not push it. Yeah. I've, you know, I've never been that, that driver. I've always.
24:09
I haven't had any tickets. Usually if I'm speeding it's just by accident because I'm... I got it when I was young. Power and Tele even monitored our driving record. Being in sales as long as you were, a lot of things changed through those years. Would you say that you changed along with things or was there certain things that you did that were consistent that...
24:39
past the test of time, I guess. There's change all the time. Every day there's a new product that comes out. And yes, you have to go along with the change. I started in copper days and went into fiber and of course fiber is the leader in our industry now. change is every day in sales. And if you don't grab it, then you're just going to be left behind in that little cocoon.
25:07
You have to be teachable. You have to be teachable. Talk about what that means, because I think there's a lot of people that aren't. What does it mean to be teachable? Well, accept new items and new technologies as they come, and train yourself and accept the manufacturer's opinions on things, and just learn the product.
25:36
And it just sells itself most of the time if it's a good product. Yeah. Open mind. Oh yeah. Open mind. Well, I like change. It always gave me another reason to go in to see that person, which I never hesitated to be on the road. Yeah. Always welcome to have a new item and new widget, new technology. What type of planning, if any, would go into your typical calls?
26:05
I mean, how did you build the quality into that sales call versus stop by and just say hi? Well, to have an appointment, have a reason, go in with an agenda. And that's what I was good at, I think, or that's what we should be good at. But have an appointment. And I never was the sales guy that...
26:28
knocked on the front door. I always had an appointment. So he knew I was coming. I had to do that. One guy in particular, and I'll name him, no harm, but it was Kurt Eldred when he was over at Clarence. This was actually before I was in this position. was selling, well, I first started trying to call him when I was selling equipment and couldn't.
26:57
Couldn't get past the gatekeepers, didn't have the Twizzlers. a couple years of trying, finally I'm in this position and I finally figured it out. The pattern was they were just going to say, no, at the front desk, he's not here. And so one day I come rolling into town and before I got to the phone company, I turned and went around the block.
27:21
And then I come and I parked on the side street and, uh, and I walked down the sidewalk. then when I got to the window, I like dropped down and I scaled under the window and I popped the front door open and he was standing right there. And I said, I got you. And he's like, all right, come on back. And that broke the ice. it did. Yeah. And what was, what was interesting about that, you know, we sat down and talked for an hour and there was.
27:51
a dozen different things where we could help. Where he had an issue and there was things that we could do to help him. That always stuck out to me, a couple of reasons. A, you just have to be persistent. We've got a newer salesperson on our team that covers southern Missouri and Arkansas, David Edwards. There was a particular account that he went to.
28:17
and finally got past the gatekeeper on the 13th try. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So the 13th try is a charm, you know. That's right. But it just goes to show you have to be persistent, you know. And, but I also think, you know, more and more, you know, there's obviously relationships that develop further than others. And you've got so many friends that are, you know, managers and customers and et cetera. You know, so.
28:46
Some of those visits do just turn into a friendly chat, obviously, but more and more people's time is so important that, you know, I feel like you have to have a plan, an agenda, a reason, you know, they don't want their time wasted just, you know, so. That's absolutely correct. And that's where the appointment is. And a lot of times.
29:08
If you do get to the manager for the appointment, they're going to ask you, what do you want to cover when you come? So again, having so many widgets that we've had over the years, it allows you to, you you could even ask, is there anything that you guys would like to see? Any direction you're going, you know, that I can help you with. And if they're honest with you, then they're hungry. They want to see how you can help them along the way.
29:35
And of course that was one of things that I was good at or we were good at together. We were always able to deliver good products and what the customer wanted. Did you ever have any professional sales training? No. No? No. Do you think you could have benefited from it? No. Well then I'm glad they didn't waste the money. I don't think you can teach somebody how to sell.
30:05
They can learn. I don't think you can teach them. I agree and disagree. I agree and disagree. Last year we invested in sales training for all of our outside folks. A little plug, was an action selling process. And I think you're right, think there's aspects of selling that come natural. And you either get it or you don't.
30:33
Yes, and that's the direction I went on that question. But I will say, I've been doing it for a long time now and going through that training, you look at it, there's no quick fix, no solution that if you do this, this, this, and this, you're going to get a sale. That's just not a reality. I agree. what they provided in that training,
31:02
I felt did kind of bring it all back together. There's certainly steps to the sale that have to happen in order for it to be successful or more, you know, your success rate to go up. And I think focusing on those, those steps makes a difference. I've seen just having that knowledge and being in sales calls, you know, the past year after that, have seen
31:32
The mistakes are more obvious, I guess. Yeah. Well, I've attended little seminars where even the ICA would put those on, back in the day, the RIDA organization, where we would ad-lib items and things and encourage somebody to be interested in something. And those are useful. I think that you can learn, because everybody has a different approach to selling.
31:59
there's the aggressive people and then there's folks that just wait for something to come to them. And, uh, and that doesn't work as well. So talk a little bit. You'd mentioned the, uh, the pink tractor foundation before. Um, but you also do some work at the fairgrounds. Oh my goodness. Yes. Uh, for the telephone museum. Um, talk, talk a little bit about the telephone museum, you know, what it is, what's there in the work that you do on that. Okay.
32:30
Well, first it's a small mini little telephone company in Iowa back in the day, Harper Telephone in Harper, Iowa. And the building was moved to the state fair, I believe late in the seventies. And I've managed the little museum for scheduling and repairs and different things for 13 years. And they put a big museum by fundraiser.
32:59
in the back that allowed us to put in, I mean, it's huge, but lots of phones and old switchboards and tools. And we even had a Splicer trailer in it at one time. Yeah. I got rid of that this year. Take up too much room? Yes. And so, yeah, we got rid of that. And that was donated by Jerry Malek. Okay. Yeah. At Liberty. Liberty. Yep.
33:27
But the state fair is, you know, they give us a lot of freedom, but they don't know anything about the old telephones and so they don't even interfere. it's been a lot of fun. Jill and I, we're very dedicated to it and you have to have a passion for the, I'm a free volunteer. manage all 11 days at the fair and I'm there every day.
33:55
So, uh, you know, Jefferson telephone used to have their museum or all, you know, was it all in the basement? I envy that muse. They, so I wondered if they still had all that, or if some of that has come to you. No, Bill has put in a, Bill Daubendick has put in a true museum in his, in, his basement of the new building. Yeah. Okay. And anybody can go there. And if you're, if you're not, of course, everybody knows the telephone folks. You can go to the front door and.
34:24
say I'd like to see Bill's museum. It's amazing. I got to go through it once. It's been a long time ago and I didn't know if it was still there. No, this is different. Yeah, okay. Yeah, this is new. And all in oak cabinets. It's beautiful. I envy it. A lot. Years ago, of my wives, it be my wife's great uncle, so my father-in-law's uncle, she'd passed away and...
34:52
We were going through the old barn and there was an old crank phone, you know, beautiful oak deal in the barn, perfect condition. But I was unable to get my hands on it. So it ended up with one of the other cousins, but yeah, it was beautiful. It was neat. We probably have a...
35:13
Well, somewhere, my wife was a big Elvis fan and we had a... An Elvis phone? An Elvis phone that would sing Jailhouse Rock and he would shake his hips. She had it on the kitchen table for years. We would welcome that as a donation. I wonder if we can find that anywhere, if I finally made her get rid of it. And your name would be put on it as well. I don't know if we need that noted, but... No, it's really good that... And the folks that come in...
35:43
The elderly folks that come in are fun because they know what they are. But the young kids, have a, we have a museum that someone from South Slope donated 70 or 80 decorator phones. And they're just amazing.
36:02
Uh, they've all the little kids just love them and all the Mickey mouse stuff. And so it was, remember one of those when I was a kid, had a Mickey mouse phone. It was a push, it was a push button, but yeah. Yeah. I get donations all the time and now it's to the point of quality. And so I don't want repairs. Yeah. And so, but it works nice and it's fun. And I dedicate a lot of time to, that and.
36:31
And I enjoy it. Yeah, that's great. know, that takes an awful lot of your time, obviously, and every day of the fair, it's a big commitment. So, you know, the rest of us really appreciate that. Well, I don't have to. state fair does not expect it. Yeah. But, you know, I think that it's necessary. Yeah. It's changed significantly since Jill and I started.
36:59
with the Ed's Fair. That's great. Yeah, it's enjoyable. You working on any cars right now? No. No? No. More focused on the woodworking? I'm on the woodworking. I got rid of a lot of my old stuff and I've just got a real classic 60 Chevy station wagon. Yeah. it's a beautiful, low miles, one owner car. Yeah.
37:29
I still have a lot, I'm not working on any of them. But I've been putting my time into my 60 Chevy. It seems like over the years, you kind of go in spurts when you say you get on a train and you kind of ride this and do it for a while and then maybe you're working on a car for a while and then you're doing something else and you kind of a jack of all trades, really. Well, my true passion are the cars. Yeah. And I can make money on those cars.
37:59
They cost a lot, I can still make money on them. Have you kept track of how many you've owned? Over 150. Oh my gosh. I 70 Chevy Two Novas. Wow. Wow. Yep. I don't know if I own five. Maybe six. I don't know. Not too many. I have 12 or 15 right now. There's three Chevy Two Novas and four F250 pickups.
38:30
few others. Yeah. Well, that's awesome. Well, we'll wrap it up here. know, thanks again, Michael. You've been a dear friend of mine for years and I'm glad you took a day out of retirement to come down and visit with us. So. Well, I appreciate it. And, you know, I think the sales folks in general, if we can go back to the honesty part of selling, you don't always have to make.
38:59
If you have to make your customer respect your company. so the honesty, the customer is not always right and neither is sales guy, but you absolutely have to meet in the middle and provide a good product. And it needs to do the job that the customer is wanting to do. Otherwise don't sell it. Yeah. Yeah. That's a big thing for me. You have to believe in the product. That's exactly right. You know, just because the manufacturer comes out with something new doesn't mean it's.
39:29
going to fit the bill, right? Well, I was always the first one to jump on the bandwagon for the new product. Yeah. And I do have a few products that I, you know, wish I wouldn't have ever taken in that front door. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of my that's been one of my challenges. And I don't know there's a challenge necessary, but it's something I pride myself on. If it's not something that I feel is quality or going to work, I just
39:59
I'm just not gonna do it. That's right. And I always had that freedom. And yeah, I always had that freedom. Awesome. Well, thanks again. We appreciate it. Well, I appreciate the time. didn't know what to expect. I think I understand what you've done. So that's great. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you. You bet.
40:27
Thanks again to Michael for joining us. We brought him down here to Kansas City on a cold Thursday morning and it's great to get him out of retirement to join us. Appreciate all the things that he's done for me over the years. Please take a minute, like, comment, subscribe. If you need assistance with a project or you're looking for representation from a great sales firm, look no further than CBM. We're right here at cbmrep.com. As always, thanks for joining us on Power of the Network and until next time.
40:57
We'll see you next time.
