Tim Locker 0:00
Hi, and welcome to power the network. I'm your host, Tim locker and vice president of broadband for CBM. We're super excited to be kicking off this podcast. We've got an industry icon joining us today 40, over 40 years in the industry, started as a sponsor for Bell Canada has now moved his way all the way up through PLP to new business development manager for preformed line products. Dan Lovak is always very interesting to talk to very passionate about his position. And we had a great conversation today about the broadband in America and government funding and some of our issues with infrastructure moving forward. So let's jump right in learn a little bit more about Dan the back and see what he's got to say. One of the things about PLP that really sticks in my mind when I started 16 years ago, Larry White was our regional manager back in the day. And you know, I came from a splicing background much like you did, the very first real thing that I had to deal with with preform when I first started was, it was a leaky closure issue. We had a company that had about 400 closures they were leaking. You know, everybody was in an uproar, Larry came out, we met the engineer, we met the manager, the phone company, the splicing contractor, and we go out and, you know, investigate what's going on. Turns out it was you know, bad labor practices they weren't put together correctly. But the one thing that stuck out to me was, at the end of the day, this contractor had to go back and replace or repair about 400 locations and preform with no fault of their own, sent that contractor everything he needed to take care of that job and took care of it on their dime. And that stuck with me from day one. And I think that says a lot about you know why our relationship has been so good and and the support that people get from PLP
Dan Levac 2:14
I appreciate that story and appreciated about Larry White in particular. Because he's always been that type of person that would want to make things right. Yeah. And it's not about pointing a finger about who did what wrong. It's about stepping up to the plate and taking ownership, you and I did the same thing with Facebook, if you recall, where it was not an issue of PLP. But rather than call anybody out on the issue itself, we worked side by side with them in the manholes developed a procedure to make it correct. And PLP provided the piece parts in order to make it correct and make everybody whole. Yep. It's not about a one and done. Right. And that's like our relationship really? Yeah. It's about long term. It's about forming a relationship that will last the test of time. And without being funny about it, making it generational. Yes, my first contact with CBM was with one of its founders, because I've been around a little bit longer than you have. Absolutely, yeah. And it's very interesting to see what happens in the history. And in the old days. As they say I came from the field. So I was a knuckle dragger. And for those of you that don't know what the term knuckle dragger is, is that's when basically you don't form any hair on your knuckles because they drag on the ground. But being a knuckle dragger means you're outside plant working, you figure out things and how to do things to get it right. And I remember coming out of the field and working with John, Mary, Eddie, and did a presentation and we captured a great deal of business. And I was kind of rough around the edges and how I presented Sure, since smoothed out some of those edges a little bit, at least one of them. But anyways, John took the time after this was all done to write a letter to my supervisor, informing him of what he thought of me and my presentation skills and what PLP thus, any of our reps had in the in the wheelhouse for what was to come. They said, what's coming is really cool. It's we've got a lot of excitement. And that's the thing. For me, it's always been about passion. If you don't have the passion for what you do, how do you expect anybody else to listen to you? How do you expect anybody else to buy into your passion? Right? So CBM and PLP go way back? And there's always been passion. And there's always been an understanding between the groups on what does the the manufacturer's representative do and how it relates to the manufacturer itself and more importantly to the end user?
Tim Locker 4:48
Yes. And that's one thing that I've really appreciated about PLP in the relationship with the reps is that we really are an extension of PLP Absolutely. You know, we have have the ability to make decisions and know that you guys will support us. And, and you know, we're the we're the feet on the streets for for your customers and our customers. Yeah. So that means a lot to us. You know, we've got a similar background, I was also a Speiser spent about 10 years as a fiber splicer. So I've dug a couple knuckles, you know, been in the trenches, I feel like that's helped me. You know, at an end user standpoint, being able to, you know, Coach people through what they're doing. And I'm sure it has you too. But has that helped you? How has that helped you? I guess, in a leadership aspect, you know, not so much in your presentation skills, but how has that helped you, you know, leading the folks that you have
Dan Levac 5:46
interesting, interesting thought, I get on the bandwagon now. And most of my guys get really tired of hearing me say it, but it's about perspective. Okay. So when we start out, and we've got our knuckles in the mud, we're focused on what we're doing, we're not worrying about what this guy is doing. We're not worrying about what this guy's doing. But we're focused on our job, when we get really good at it, we have to be the best that we can be at it, nevermind being the best in the world, you just have to be the best that you can be. And when you give everything you've got, and you show passion, and you just want to be the best, people will notice that and then you may get promoted, you take a step back. And now what happens when you take that step back, your perspective changes. Okay, yeah, stay with me. The more you get promoted, the more you move up, the more your perspective changes, it gets wider and wider, unless
Tim Locker 6:33
you actually have a chance to touch and feel and do all
Dan Levac 6:37
that you're exactly right. So then now what happens is the perspective that I used to have is based on a time and a technological period, that has changed. So now what happens is I depend on that guy that I used to be, I depend on that person's perspective, more than ever. I don't have the answers to everything I used to have. Now I have to depend on the next person that has taken that role. So I look at that as an understanding of perspective. Again, with the generation thing, it's generational. So how does that help us to relate to that person now the younger generation person that's on the front line that has that close up perspective? We have to really listen? Yeah.
Tim Locker 7:23
So one of the things I know is very important to you, and I think is certainly related to what's going on in the industry. Now with this broadband, just blast that we're seeing. How do we train all the people that are coming into the into these positions? How do we first recruit them? But how do we train them, so that all of this deployment will actually have some legs on it?
Dan Levac 7:49
Again, this is this is from my point of view, it's probably not going to be accepted by everybody. But most every organization I belong to, and I belong to a lot of them whether it's the FBA, the SCTE, or especially the PCCA, the power communication Contractors Association have done a wonderful job. They get into the dirt, and they really figure out what do we have to do in order to make this happen? So they're doing a lot of training programs, FBA has got the optics training program, they're doing stuff SCTE is doing stuff on the cable side of the house, and everything is like fitting in this this perfect situation. Right? So but if you hear it from the FDA, everything has to be about the fiber splicer. Right. And then you hear it from the PCCA. And they said, Did you realize for every one fiber splice, or that's out there, it takes 20 other construction workers to get the fiber to that person. Right. It's a great point. Wait, there's more. So now, you've got manufacturers, distributors, heaven forbid salespeople that are also have to be part of that process. And it requires another 30 or 40 of them in order to get the equipment to those people. One more thing 150 to 250 qualified instructors to train the people that we need to have on site. Yep. So this is this is not going to be fixed in a week. No, it's not going to be fixed in a year. Right. What is it generational? It is it's going to be a generational things. But there's more students that are required. And how do we get those students in? Where do we get them from? Because that's really the industry short like 200 to 500,000 people to do the work necessary to get us to where we need to go with the broadband.
Tim Locker 9:32
Yeah, and you know, in the contractors are already booked into next year. And they, you know, companies are finding themselves not being able to get their projects done because they can't get a contractor to do it. The
Dan Levac 9:44
technology is going to help. It's not fully here yet. But there's a lot of good technology that's hitting the industry and changing and I always make a comment because of my advanced age. What I've seen in the Last, say 2023 Technology has advanced quicker than it has in the first 40 plus years that I've been in the industry. Oh, yeah, totally fast and how rapid This is moving. So it's going to take a lot more than some of these classes to get it done. Yes, it's going to take public private, but it's going to take an understanding of what the investment really is going to be for everybody. And the reason I bring that up as if you brought up bead, right, the financial part of it, it's really interesting. People say, Well, there's $60 billion coming in. But wait 20 billion of that is going to be for subsidies for people that can't afford that internet, which is a good thing, right? And then most people don't realize there's going to be a tax put on that. So the money that's the 42 billion that's leftover, there's going to be a 20% tax. Yeah,
Tim Locker 10:46
you and I talked earlier about that a little bit. And and that's something that I didn't realize. So I guess if you could explain that a little bit more, because this, this kind of blew me away in terms of so it's
Dan Levac 10:59
a typical tax from the government. They tax as much and as often as they can. But when I say 20% People look at and say, Oh, 20% $8.5 billion off the top. Yeah, that's now come away from the infrastructure build, and go back into the government coffers.
Tim Locker 11:18
So So what you're saying so what you're saying is the money that the federal government is doling out in the bead program, the recipients are then being taxed, like an income tax on that money.
Dan Levac 11:33
It's it's a user tax, right. So yeah, okay. So but that's, that's but the here's some good things about it, is that I've noticed that some of the states are relinquishing their portion of the tax that they would put on it. So there's also a state tax that might get unless it's written out of the specification. And then the other thing is, is that they're giving the money to the states to, to provide infrastructure based on the need of each state, which is cool.
Tim Locker 12:00
Yes. Really quick, let me tell you a little bit about CBM. We're manufacturer's rep firm right here in the Midwest. What that means is we are a contracted sales organization that worked for multiple different manufacturers. So we can be a resource for you on many different facets. We were established in 1960, and now are an ESOP company. So we are employee owned. And what that means is we have a different mindset here. The tagline around the office is act like an owner. So our employees, they think differently think as owners, and we operate that way. And we are inspired by that leadership. If we can be a resource for you, please reach out to us at CBM rep.com.
Dan Levac 12:58
But I'd like to talk a little bit more about Baba, build America by America. Oh, Baba. Yeah. And we're not talking about black sheep here. No. So.
Tim Locker 13:08
So this is, this has been confusing to me, because I've sat through a couple of you know, our US presentations talking about Buy America. And correct me if I'm wrong, but there's a couple of different bio Americans.
Dan Levac 13:21
Well, there's more than one. But I mean, let's just talk about this specific one, right for the beat program.
Tim Locker 13:25
Yes. So in my, in my understanding of it, it seems to me like they're putting a lot of emphasis on how to get around
Dan Levac 13:34
it. So some people are and that's the people that can't meet it. Gotcha. Okay, that makes sense. But here's the issue with the whole concept is that number one, the the language has not even fully written yet. It's not decided yet, right? They have till September 21, to present to the NTIA, which will then decide whether or not we have to make arrangements to have carve outs for whatever's necessary. I found it interesting. I was at a broadband symposium not long ago. And I can say this because it's public. But ad Tran had a big event. And they announced and they had a bunch of government from the current administration present. They had some some representation there. And ad Tran about a $1.2 billion company said look at us, we spent $5 million in order to prepare for this right to be compliant and to increase our capacity for deployment for the BT program. Everybody would think that they just went to the moon and back. Yeah, right. PLP on the other hand, has invested in we're smaller than that. We're about $700 million company, we invested well over $35 million. In order to do this. right through to the plant expanding plant expansion. We put it we bought another company. We did an extensive tooling program to increase capacity. We bought a manufacturing facility with injection molding in the Czech Republic. People say well, how does that matter for America? Because we were supplying a Nia with all of our coyote closures from the United States. Thank you. So now that product that would have been put there is now going to stay here in the United States. And the plant that we purchased in the Czech Republic would be able to support that. Yeah, for the need for a meow. So all that considered, they want to look at the language within Baba and say, well, everything, except for if it's plastic, or if it's metal, and it's made in China, you're out. So I would challenge anybody to find a nut or bolt or any kind of fastener inside a system that's not manufactured in China or in Asia.
Tim Locker 15:35
Yeah, I was going to try to stop you there. So nuts, bolts, plastic. So does that mean plastic manufactured overseas, is allowed
Dan Levac 15:47
is not allowed? It's not allowed? It's not okay. That's an automatic disqualification, even though 90% of our product could be manufactured in the United States. My argument to the NTIA is why can't a company that's investing that much money, not only in the expansion, but in the employees? Right, yeah, these American employees? Why can't we get weighed, contribute, let that contribute to the weight of the overall associated cost of the product,
Tim Locker 16:21
especially for PLP? Because you? You know, I've had the pleasure to go through the factory down in Rogers, and meet the folks down there that are that are building these products. And I mean, what's the average tenure at the plant? 25 years? Oh,
Dan Levac 16:34
yeah. I mean, it's, it's absurd. It's up there, you've
Tim Locker 16:36
got a lot of long,
Dan Levac 16:37
I mean, it's the people that we invest in, but it's the equipment we invest in, we have to be in order to stay relevant, right? It's kind of like if you don't invest in yourself, who does? If you don't invest in yourself, eventually you'll wither on the vine and become irrelevant. Yep. And we're trying to avoid that. So we're making really strategic investments, we're up to over 60 injection molding machines in the United States alone. That's awesome. I mean, it's it's a phenomenal growth that we've had, and it's to prepare for this. And it was on the hope that the documentation that would be required would be reasonable to the point that it would not disqualify an American company from participating in an American program. Well, I
Tim Locker 17:21
think that's the whole kind of heart behind the bars that yeah, we support the American companies that are building this stuff here for the American projects. But yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it all unfolds. And, and, you know, I'm sure PLP in the end is gonna do the right thing. And
Dan Levac 17:39
we always have, and PLP has been around for 75 years. And it's always been PLP, we've not changed our name. We've not run from the public. We didn't change our name to protect the innocent, we've always been PLP. And we're really proud of that. And we're proud of what we do. In order to understand how this works. It's generational. Again, PLP is the fourth generation is now the president of PLP. And so that's an exciting time for us. We're in very, you know, a lot of different areas of expertise that we have in regards to the utility space, right? Yeah, so we're in the transmission distribution substation, underground, communication tower and antenna, solar, we're into inspection services, all of these different things, Evie, I mean, we're all into all of these different things. And and it's just an interesting time and a phenomenal time to be in the industry. Anybody that's not in any one of these industries should get become part of it. Yeah. And it's definitely right here. What's not to love?
Tim Locker 18:46
Well, the neat thing too, about the you know, the telecom industry, in particular is it's, it's fairly small. I mean, it's a tight niche group of people. And even in my, you know, I've been in the industry. Oh, gosh, I guess 25 years now younger, but you know, in just even in this role, 16 years at CBM it's amazing, just how small it really is. And it's full of a lot of good people.
Dan Levac 19:14
Oh, absolutely. No, it's a great to count. On one hand, the number of true not nice people I've met in the 40 plus years I've been in the industry. That's it
Tim Locker 19:23
was on hand is better than one finger. So um, well.
Dan Levac 19:27
So Tim, you didn't make the list? I did. Yeah. That's a good thing. But again, I'll go back to the investment part of it. Understanding to invest in yourself. And outreach is another thing that I like to do, like SCTE membership, right? Outreach is reach out to someone that you typically wouldn't talk to to expand other people's knowledge of the industries that you are that you serve, right. You say telecommunications, I say communications, because it's, it's expandable to them personally. it's expanded to the point that who else is being left out? Because it's not typical telco?
Tim Locker 20:06
Well, yeah. And that's been I think one of the challenges for, certainly for us at CBM. And I think also with PLP is, I mean, we're seeing the broadband spread across all these industries. You know, it used to be just your typical telcos that are that are doing this and cable TV companies. And now it's you got wireless providers, you've got utilities. You know, there's all different municipals that are doing builds. Now.
Dan Levac 20:35
I want to know, one that really fires me up that no one's talking about or very few people are talking about what is the tribal deployment. If you look at the tribal deployment, and again, I've been around a long time, and I've done a lot of work for the US government, training, the DoD training the various branches of the military around the world. I've been blessed to be able to do this. But one of the ones that I really started to get involved with recently was the tribal deployment thought process. And it's exciting,
Tim Locker 21:00
because we've got several large projects in our area that are it's a throwback, yeah,
Dan Levac 21:05
it's a throwback, I was able to have a meeting with them at one of our shows, in our office on the floor in our meeting room on the floor. And I was just blown away by the conversation that we had, because they talked generational, right? Absolutely. They talked about their tribe originated in Ohio, right, which is now where I live pretty interesting. And then they said four generations later, they went from 98 people to almost 4000 people in their tribe. And then I talked to them about their deployment thought process and what was going on. And they said, We're not a one and done. We're not doing this for tomorrow, we're doing this for what's next. We're doing this for the generations to come. And that click the bell for you? Oh, absolutely. Because I've been in the industry for four generations. So I sit back and I look at this. And I see the people in my mind, that are out there working hard to develop a and deploy infrastructure that will be there for their children, their grandchildren and their grandchildren's children. That's how it used to be Yeah, it never used to be about let's put it on there, get it done, and see if we can walk away and make a buck. It was about the future of that. And for them, it's about the future of the tribe. Isn't that something to be excited about? When they want to build those relationships
Tim Locker 22:19
a lot bigger than just, you know, me personally? Well, I need internet the house. This is I mean, it's like you said it's generational. And one thing you said though, too, about that, you know, doing that, building it for the long term and and the people coming behind? You know, I've read a few different articles about, you know, some of our first deployments, you know, the first round art off, etc. And some of the things, you know, stuff we built, even in the last 10 years is now all of a sudden obsolete, or, you know, we're doing things different, doing things differently. Now, how do we what do we do now? How do we build our networks differently now, so that it will last generationally,
Dan Levac 23:02
we still have the same thought process in mind, and I think it has to change a little bit. Reason being is in other words, like future proofing and long term investment are coming up more and more. Before it was an automatic it was a given that we were building the plant for 30 to 40 years. It's not that way anymore. So now when you talk about future proofing, you've got to talk about scalability, you've got to talk about adaptability, you've got to talk about transforming an original thought that was build it, get it done and move on to build it, we're coming back next week to add to it or expand it now knowing ahead of time that you're going to add on to it.
Tim Locker 23:42
Because back in my day as splicing, you know, you'd have a six count. And the guy would say Oh, I mean, that's never you're never ever gonna need more than that. Well, that fiber doesn't even work in today's technology, you know, let alone not be enough. Yeah.
Tim Locker 24:05
I always enjoy talking with Dan. He's so dynamic and passionate about what he does. We appreciate him coming on the show. He's got a lot to say. So we're probably going to have a follow up here. Coming out for part two was Dan. If you've got questions about preformed line products, you can always go to plp.com or reach out to us here at CBM. That CBM rep.com And we're happy to get you in touch with PLP or any other resource we can be for you. We'd appreciate that. Thank you again for joining us on power the network and we'll see you next time.
