Hi, Welcome to Power the Network.
I'm your host, Tim Locker, vice president of Broadband here at CBM.
You know, as many of you know, I started here.
I've cut my teeth in the communication industry, and you know, one of the things I really enjoy about this podcast is getting to learn more about the other markets that we serve and also meeting, you know, with some of the folks that we represent there in that market.
So you know, today we've got mister Pat Stepanic from invent Hoffman MAYBN, first time meeting him, and I'm looking forward to our conversation.
Please join us and follow along.
Pat, Thanks for joining us today.
We appreciate you taking the time to Thanks for having me to be with us.
I noticed you've got a pretty pretty diverse background in the industry, many years of service obviously, but you have one of those titles that's kind of hard to define, business development.
You know.
Business development to me is kind of looking forward into the future, trying to see what's what's coming.
Uh, you know, what what kind of things are you seeing in the future?
For Hoffman, I see more automation coming, more different automation pieces to help out our panel shops, whether that's more machines, more pieces for service that type of thing.
So we're always developing new things, new machines, new pieces and parts to help out our panel shops to automate.
So you mentioned you're you're originally from the Steinhauer side of the house, which is a company that Hoffman bought.
Tell me a little bit about about Steinhauer and why it's relevant.
Steinhauer is a German company that just built machines.
So our main focused machine was our mod center, which is our machine to cut out enclosures and cutouts.
I branched off into a machine called the NC cut, which is to do dinnin duct rail, and then it even branched off into our newest ite, which is our PWA Personal Wiring Assistant, which is a way to wire all your panels and to create all the wires for all your panels.
Okay, you know, so we'd have to probably dumb it down a little bit for me and maybe some of the viewers.
You know, I've come out of our communication industry, so you know, the commercial industrial.
Some of this stuff is new to me.
When you say mod center, let's talk about what that does.
It is, in essence, it's a CNC machine that basically will cut out all your holes and cutouts in your enclosure, so all your modification points.
So when you're bringing wires in the bottom of your cabinet, or you're doing push buttons on the front of the cabinet for control, it would do all your cutouts for that.
But it's much much more than just a regular CNC cut machine because what it does is not only does it figure out all the cuttholes, we also have software enabled in it which handle all the speed and feed rates for you as well.
A standard CNC machine you have to figure out all the speed and feed rates to cut on and this machine does all those calculations for you.
It's so we talk about industrial automation.
Let's lay that out.
So it could be a let's say it's a food processing plant, and so there what types of things would they be trying to automate and a food food food processing plant, you're gonna have the conveyors that run your food that comes down.
You're gonna have a packaging piece to it where it actually will make the boxes and do that.
You'll have a wrapping piece that may wrap the boxes after it gets done for that, and then you're gonna have other pieces where you're gonna put your barcodes on.
You can scan bar codes, do all pieces of the automation so that it spits out at the end the box that your cereal comes in or whatever else would come in.
Okay.
So so when we talk about the automation, then what Hoffman does is, uh, you know, we providing closures where all those electrical components and controls and all that stuff's gonna go.
And so where you come in then is the panel shops.
If you will tell me, tell me what a panel shop does and why why this automation is good for them.
So a panel shop does everything from the controller on a machine to even street lights that you might see out there.
The boxes they handle all the different boxes, so everything from a small junction box up to a big box that would control different things.
Panel shop makes everything in between.
I mean everything you can think of that has a box and it could could have come from a panel shop, okay, and so traditionally they would.
So they're gonna they're gonna provide a box to the customer.
They're gonna put whatever controls in it.
They need all of that stuff, and they're gonna basically customize that for the for the end user, and so they will they I would traditionally then do all this by hand or yeah, typically most shops do all by hand.
So the cutouts they do, they actually have a jigsaw or a cut They're doing it very manually, which is very slow process.
There's also some safety involved with it because you could obviously cut your fingers, cut your hands that type of thing.
When they go through, they land all their different panel pieces and then they put their wires in, so they're wiring it from zero point A to point B and they basically build you an entire panel that will run whatever piece of machinery that you might want it to run.
Okay, and so does Hoffman.
Does Hoffman supply any controls at this point or is it just not No, Hoffman only supplies the boxes typically.
We are now starting to branch off.
Obviously we were talking about the machines that build the wires, that do the cutouts and that type of thing.
We're also looking at tilt tables, which is actually a table to hold the panel when they're wiring it.
Stuff like that, So we're branching off into more things like that.
We also actually have a new software package too to help them design all these panels as well.
Okay, so if I'm a panel shop, what percentage of my business do you think is just small standard like repetitive business, and what percentage would be like super complicated?
Usually about usually about a fifty to fifty mix, because you need enough repetitive stuff to pay the bills and then you work on some of the more you know, extravagant stuff usually is the other fifty percent, depending on the shop.
You'll talk to a lot of guys that are they call it one offs, but in the reality, nobody's a one off panel shop.
They couldn't make enough money to do that.
It's all it's mostly repetitive stuff, like I said, about fifty percent.
Wherever that each panel shop kind of has a little niche has their own little niche.
And you have guys that are wastewater panel shops.
You have guys that are panel shops that handle the conveyor type systems, so they do a lot of stuff for the Amazons of the world and the Walmarts and you know all those type of guys as well.
Okay, that makes sense, So describe this mod center if you will, how big of a machine is it?
How the kind of a box from small to big?
I mean, walk us through what that looks like and feels like.
So we have four different sizes of the machines.
Basically the width of the machine is the same, but the heights of the machine is the difference.
Okay, they have doors on the front.
When you close the door as you're actually doing your back panels on the doors.
When you open them, you put your enclosures in and cut them.
We have a sixty three inch tall, we have an eighty inch tall, and we have a ninety three inch tall, And that width and height measures how big of a box you can put in it.
Okay, obviously you can put up to a ninety inch box, but a lot of our customers with our big model will do even a giant cabinet which we call two doors, which these wouldn't fit in this studio.
Basically a two or a four door enclosure.
Those can go in our larger model and be able to cut as well.
Now is there a range in other words, on that largest model, can you do it tiny box like this too?
Absolutely, it'll go down to right around four inches With a special attachment you go down to one and two inch boxes.
But basically it's made for more of the bigger boxes, the bigger model, but it just it has a full range.
What is there an average?
Is there a one machine that you see more than others?
Yeah?
I sell the large model in the United States because typically in North America we're cutting big boxes, and because of the range of it, because if you use the right adapter, it can go down to a one inch box.
It can cut pretty much all your boxes, so it covers everything.
Yeah, and that's our two ninety three model.
We call it.
Okay, okay awesome.
What kind of production rates does that give the panel shop?
It's got a result obviously for them to make things faster, make things more profitable, generally, looking at about a seventy five percent reduction in labor, it's amazing.
Lot of shops.
And then the amount of accuracy that the machine provides is also amazing.
So this is cut on our machine, and you can see that it makes such a precise cut.
It is not even a sharp cut at the end.
So you can actually take a look at that and it'll make that that precise of a cut.
If you have a and I didn't bring one.
I apologize.
If you have a painted door on the front, it'll actually it will cut so precisely, won't disturb the paint on the door.
It cuts that precisely, so you can paint it ahead of time and then still do your cuts and not have any issues.
It cuts to a tenth of a millimeter accuracy, so it's quite amazing.
Okay, So for those guys that have a special run that you're doing a lot of their main business model, they can make them seventy five percent faster.
Absolutely, they can do tremendous there and then still use it on their custom stuff.
Awesome.
What is the NC cut?
So the NC cut is a specialized din inductrail cutter, which actually what it does is it does two things.
It electronically cuts your din inductrail, but then it autumnt.
So explain that for people that that don't know what's a din rail?
Okay.
Dinrail is the rail that you put on the back of the panel.
So when the guys wire the panel, they actually have dinrail that goes inside.
The wire runs inside this dinrail as a protection inside and it runs to different components.
So it runs from a power supply up to something else, okay, and it runs through this dinrail.
That dinrail is is adhere to the back of the panel.
They stick it on or usually screw it in, and then the wires run through that dinrail into their different devices, and then the din rail holds uh power supplies breakers typically going to those, and then that is the that is the duct, and then they have the din rail was runs along it, which is what everything attaches to.
So they have dinrail mounted power supplies, dinrail mounted relays, all that type of thing.
All the controls are all dinrail mounted.
What our machine does is it actually what a big waste in most shops is the fact that they cut the din inductrail off at the wrong measurement, so they kind of wing it.
They say, okay, it's twenty inches, oops, it should have been twenty two inches.
That piece usually goes in the trash can.
There's the ways this machine will take once you wire it and go through it, it will actually take one job or many jobs and truncate them together to save you all that din induct rail waste.
The cuts are perfect, they're exact, and it saves you all that didn't induct waste that you have okay, so it's a perfect fit every time.
That's awesome.
The power the Power Wirings Assistant or PWA.
Walk me through what that does, okay, your personal wiring assistant.
We've got three different models, and the PWA two thousand is made to sit next to the operator and it has all the pieces that i'll actually cut the wire.
The operator would take it and actually put it into the stripper crimper or the feral tool to put a feral on the end.
That type of connector is a ferreal and then it actually will print a label that'll put the label on for you as well, so it tells you where to and from to and from.
And we have three different models.
We have the the two thousand, which I call our fairly manual semi automatic, to our five thousand, which is semi automatic which basically does the same labels, to the six thousand, which will actually make you even a wiring harness like this.
This model also prints right along the wire, so prints right on the wire, It bundles prints and then puts the ends on the wire.
In essence makes you a whole wiring harness that you can just take right out and put into your cabinet.
I wanted to take a second and explain what is a manufacturer's rep.
You know, it's still funny to me sometimes our role is often misunderstood.
But in a nutshell, what a rep does is we are a subcontracted sales force for multiple manufacturers.
Are our lines are complementary to each other and not competitive.
And what this does is, you know, it often gives us the opportunity to to sell a full line solution.
So it really brings value to our customer when we can you know, represent product from one end to the other.
We're not a distributor, uh.
You know, we work with distributors uh to get our product to market, but we're really an extension of those factories.
So just in a nutshell, if you're looking for a great manufacturer rep with years of experiencing great folks, look us up at cbmrep dot com.
So you know, obviously that ties in.
It obviously seems complicated, you know, all the wiring where it all goes.
But you've got a software package that that takes care of that.
Tell me what that software package can do.
So it's a new software package, soll DTM we call it.
It's called direc to manufacturing.
And what that does is it gives the operator, the owner, the operator the ability to completely wire his panel, put in all his relays, put in all his pieces and parts in his cabinet, do it in virtual and then once you get done with that, you can export that file out whether you want to do it as a virtual drop in to show your customer what you're doing.
You can take your build of materials and send it to your purchasing place, and then you can take your output and send it to all the machines, so it basically drives your entire entire panel shop.
Okay, so if I've got a big custom cabinet and i need whatever XYZ controls in it, you can put all those details in Yep, it's going to tell you where to put all the components, how the wiring's going to go.
Yep, it'll leave it.
It'll leave it self wire.
So you can actually tell it you want packfill to go fifty percent right and thirty percent left, and it will self wire.
It'll leave tell you where it s.
Thinks is a good suggestion to put all your wiring inside your panel along with all your stuff.
It'll also it also knows specifications on things like power supplies because you have to have certain spacing on them.
It knows that, and it will not let you place something close to it.
It also knows the gauge of wire, so will not let you put the wrong gauge of wire with the right with the right piece because it won't allow that.
It knows it should be ten gauge or eight gauge.
And that's the only thing that's going to let you do.
Okay, So when I'm done with this whole thing, I've got it designed, I'm going to put the box into the mod center.
We're going to cut it all, We're going to go to the wiring assistant.
It's going to make all the cables for you.
How much of this is still manual?
Then what parts are left for the technician to do?
Well?
You still have to land the wire in the cabinet.
Ok Now.
The direct to manufacturing software also has a smart wiring piece to it, which we have another machine called the SWT three thousand, which actually is a smart rack that's smart.
You can hang your wires and then it will actually teach your operator where to land it in the in the in the cabinet.
So it'll keep you from wires crossroom yep.
So now you don't have to have a necessarily super smart operator doing it, which is also another big issue in the shops too because they have legacy people that can only wire these cabinets.
That takes it out of that because everybody can wire every cabinet.
Yeah, so what's what's your target customer?
I mean, why would somebody not have one of these in their shop?
Typically our target customers, of course, we talk about panel shops, but we also call on OEMs.
There's a lot of OEMs that have their own panel shops and then they do their own panels.
We also have integrators, and now an integrator is a guy that will take the panel shop stuff and actually land it so he can actually do robotics with it.
So he's the guy that will go into General Motors and put the robots in.
So there's usually three different designations of guys that we can sell.
Typically, most guys have the panel shop and the piece and they're or they're doing enough panels to make it worth their while.
Basically, Okay, so what's your what's your elevator pitch?
I guess for the uh, yeah, if you're if you're going into an integrator or one of those types, you know, what's your what's your pitch?
Is there competition in the market for this?
Is there?
Weirdly there's one competitor on well, it depends on which which piece you've got.
You've got on the mod center, there's really only one other competitor.
Same with the NC cut.
When you get into the wire machine, there's six or eight different competitors.
Okay, I would say the elevator pitch is you know, do you want to save on labor or you know, save that thing.
Most customers have an issue hiring people now.
They not only cannot find people, but the people they find cannot do what they used to do, say ten years ago, when it comes to the wiring and that piece to it.
So they need to have these pieces and parts together.
And it really it gives the control back to the owner and the product man in each of these panel shops because you do not have to rely on certain people and people that you cannot find.
It replaces a lot of that labor.
Okay, So how many errors do you think doing it manually?
You know, you got to assume people are plugging wires in the wrong places, or maybe not building things to spec.
You know, do you see a high percentage of errors?
Amazing when you do this manually, you have guys taping it off and doing it for the mod center.
Have you have My joke is I walk into a shop and say, where's your waist area And they always have a set of cabinets over here that they've ruined because they cut the wrong hole or they put the wrong piece on it.
When you go into the wiring side of it, that's amazing too.
You have this bin of wires that's usually a table that's you know, a box that's bigger than this table that is full of wires, and that waste is a machine in six months to a year.
Basically the NC cut they have a they have a bin underneath it where they have three or four bins.
The worst guy I ever saw, I had a whole dumpster full of duct trail.
Yeah, a distributor cutting it for his customer.
So cutting whoops, that's wrong throat in the dumpster.
Yeah.
So yeah, and even if it's nickels at a time, it still adds up over oh yeah, over years.
Yeah.
Yeah, So you'd you'd mentioned, uh, you know, the work shortage.
I think that affects every every industry, not not just yours.
But uh uh, you know, even since COVID, that seems to be a pattern, you know, a shortage of people.
You know, what what can your mod center do for?
Uh, for somebody in terms of an employee like that, Well, we've got with the software.
I've got a customer that actually has all of our machines along with the software, and he was able.
He stated to me that typically to train one of his employees took around two years to train him.
After he got the software, he was able to make this guy basically dangerous, basically starting to wire a panel after two weeks.
So you can see there's usually a huge, huge, big scace for that big increase, for that big increase in the learning curve.
And you know, uh, you know, if people people don't seem to have the same longevity uh as they used to.
You know, you used back in the day.
You know, you go to work for the same factory for forty years and retire and that's what you did.
But it seems like people you know, certainly bounce around a lot more uh now, So increasing that learning curve is is incredible.
So there's also a thing with legacy employees that can I hate to say this, but can hold the ownership ransom because they're the only guy that knows how to wire that panel.
And when you take that software and bring it into this thing and give them the ability to be able to look on the software and anybody can do it, that guy can't hold you for ransom anymore.
Inside that.
Yeah, No, that's a great point, yep, for sure.
So industrial automation is kind of a buzzword.
You know, we hear a lot about that.
Now, what role does AI play in automation?
Uh, you know, A really hasn't factored that far into it yet, but we are you know, going towards it right now.
You know.
That's what something they always always ask me, you know at different places they say, well, you know, you're replacing people, but these people don't exist.
The labor force is just not there for these people.
And then what a lot of guys do is they branch off and they become the programmer for that or they become the guy that does that part of it.
Yeah, there's still positions that are needed to just change the role change.
Yeah, And like I said, they can't find that, and there's also a lack of labor where people want to do all the manual stuff, so that becomes the next the next phase, you know.
You know, I think it's kind of funny because actually, you know, what you're doing is you're providing automation to the guys that are providing automation, you know, frankly, uh, you know, and with your software it's obviously uh, industry leading, you know, in very tech forward software.
So I think that's pretty awesome.
But you'd mentioned something about using virtual reality too, Can you talk more about that.
Yeah, with our with our rack that we we have, we have the ability for to be able to help the guys land wires.
One of our customers actually extended it to a VR set of goggles and instead of his guys looking at still basically a digital schematic, they're they're just have it in their screen and they can just go right to wiring.
So it's kind of a you know, the virtual reality and where to plug it in.
Yeah, and it works right into what everybody's going to now because people, I guess want to play video games.
We're not playing video games at work, right, so yeah, why not?
All good yeah.
Yeah.
What's your favorite game?
What's my favorite game?
Yeah?
I don't have a favorite game.
I kind of wonder that's why I don't know.
Yeah, hockey.
You mentioned you play hockey.
Yeah, I'm a hockey player.
Beer leaguer, Yeah, beer League, old man hockey.
Yeah, well that's far ahead of me.
I don't think I could even get on the ice without wiping out.
So you have to learn that at a young age, don't you.
Yeah.
Yeah, I started skating when I was nine.
But yeah, born and raised in Michigan.
No, born and raised in Indiana, Indiana.
Okay, Yanna moved to Michigan, gosh, sixteen years ago.
Okay, So okay, So you played all the way through school playing in college or I played very little college?
Yeah.
I played a little bit for U Yeah, college team, but okay, mainly was high school high school Okay, Yeah, we didn't we didn't have we didn't have high school hockey where I was from, thank goodness.
But it's another breed.
So how long have you been with Hoffman now?
Three years?
Three years?
Okay?
And you've you've been with a REP in the past.
Yeah, I had my role and REP agency before this, Okay, And then before that, I worked in several different business development manager themes Okay, mostly for German companies, So that's kind of my forte.
Okay, okay, did you have any mentors or who paved the way for you?
Absolutely, there was just a bunch of different guys.
I had too many to mention, but yeah, a lot of different people that had taught me different things in automation.
Okay.
Absolutely.
Is there someone that you're paying that favor back to now, somebody under your wings?
Yeah, kind of the younger generation, my forte.
What I love to do is we work a lot with reps like you guys.
Yeah, and there's always younger reps and different guys that work towards that.
And yeah, I'm always working with young, old everybody to get them up to speed on the automation side.
So awesome.
Well, we I know our team enjoys working with you and we're grateful to have you in this week, so thank you, thanks again.
But what would you say is one assumption that people make about your job that you would disagree with people make about my job.
Probably what we talked about earlier, that we're replacing people, and like I said, I don't think they're the people exist.
And you know, that would probably be the number one assumption because if I talk to somebody more of the lay people that don't know what I do, that's what their their Their old thought is that while you're replacing people with you, oh, now there's a robot and now there.
But like I said that, I don't know where everybody went after COVID, but they all disappeared, so they're not there.
And that seems to be a common theme in every panel shop.
Well all we am just all the way across the board.
Yeah, so yeah, we see it in every industry that we uh, that we support, we see that theme for sure.
So well, awesome, Pat, thanks again for taking the time to be with us today.
Thanks for having me.
You know, and invent Hoffman is a great line for us and we're proud to represent it in so many ways.
And uh, we can't say enough about you know, the great things that you guys do, and and we just really appreciate your support.
So thank you so much, Thanks for having me.
Thank you appreciate it.
Thanks again for joining us today on Power of the Network.
It was great to have an opportunity to get to know Pat a little bit better and hopefully you enjoyed that as well.
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