00:00
Hi, welcome to Power of the Network. I'm your host, Tim Locker, Vice President of Broadband here at CBM. We've got a very special guest with us today. Took a lot of pulling, kicking and screaming, but we finally got him convinced to come in and do the show with us. This gentleman has forgot more about fiber optics than most of us will ever know. So I'm super excited to have him on the show today. Mr. Mike Lamb, Regional Manager at OFS. Let's get into this conversation. It's going to be a good one.
00:33
Mike, thank you so much for joining us. I know we brought you in here kicking and screaming, but we finally got you in here and we're so happy that you joined us. It only took you two years to get me here. Well, it's been about a year. And brought me in before a snowstorm. Brought you in before a snowstorm. So that's all right, but no, thank you so much. Let's just get right into it. I think we need to start right from the beginning. I think you've got an interesting story.
01:00
been around obviously a long, long time in the industry. So let's start at the beginning. Tell us how you got your start and how you even fell into fiber optics. How much time we got? We got all the time in the world. Okay, so I get out of college in 1969 and go to work testing missiles and radars at Cheyenne Mountain. Got involved in data communications verification. Testing.
01:29
testing links between radar sites and missile sites. COEX, microwave, Twisted Bear. That job ended and I went to work for Southwestern Bell for three and a half years doing copper. Like Bell Labs, is that? No, I was an outside plant engineer in Houston, Texas. Worst job I've ever had in my life. How come?
01:57
hole replacements, cable throws, recons in a bad part of town. I hated the job. I learned more in three and a half years doing that job than I've ever learned since because I learned how construction works, how splicers work. It was a great, it was a good learning experience. Then- Poor environment. Yeah, I was a spoiled little brat.
02:25
engineer from Western Electric to went to work for Southwestern Bell. Okay. That was part of my problem. Then I went to Saudi Arabia, Michael A. Project, and that was about a year and a half job. And then I wound up in sales. That was my first sales job. And with Western Electric, we called it account management. We sold 5E switches. We sold digital loop carrier. We sold copper. This was before fiber.
02:55
before fiber. The old DLC cabinets. Yeah. And load coils. Anything that had to do with copper, we sold it. Remember coming home from Atlanta one week, sat down at the kitchen table and I told my wife, I said, you won't believe what these idiots at Bell Labs say we're going to do next. We're going to talk over glass.
03:21
I said, this is never, ever going to work. I don't know what they're smoking. And lo and behold, we started talking over glass. And to see where fiber has come since 1984, 85 is amazing. You've seen the whole track of it. We started- Up to now. Yeah, we started out with multi-mode. Multi-mode is still around, but it's an enterprise type cable.
03:51
Largest cable was 144 fibers. Yep, that was a lot. That was a lot. You'd put a cable in in downtown Dallas and you'd put 48 fibers in and they thought it was too much. Well, and back to like those, you know, the AFC cabinets and stuff is like, oh, you run a six fiber to it. That's more than you'll ever need. Yeah. More than you'll need. And there's still a lot of that cable out there.
04:16
We came out with Ribbon Cable. We were the first company that had Ribbon Cable. That was back in the mid-80s. Manufacturing has come so far. Talk about that a little bit though. So when did the OFS name come around and what's the history? I don't think everybody is necessarily up to speed on who OF is.
04:37
or who OFS is and the legacy behind that. Okay, I won't get into Judge Green, but we had Bell Labs, we had AT&T, which was the long lines, and we had Southwestern Bell, Mountain Bell, Bell South. Those were the regional operating companies. That went away with the Judge Green decision. AT&T went into manufacturing only. Bell Labs was still around.
05:07
you started to see merging of the Bell operating companies. Southwestern Bell bought Bell South, they bought Pacific Bell, they bought SNET, they wound up with Ameriprise also. And they all merged. AT&T basically went away and became Lucent. Lucent had a rich, varied short frame.
05:35
The stock split two or three times. It was going crazy. Then it crashed. And we were bought out by Furikawa. And we became- What year was that, do you think? This would have been 2001, maybe 2002. And we became OFS. Nobody knew who OFS was. I think a lot of people recognize, you know, Alcatel, Lucent, those names, but not necessarily OFS. Yeah.
06:05
So that's when we became OFS. Okay, so you were within the same organization essentially 20 some years even before it came, 15, 20 years before it came. Well, I spent a short time with Ray Kim, another fiber copper company, but I've been in telecommunications basically since 1969. So I've seen a little bit of all of it.
06:33
I think you've probably forgot more about fiber than most of us will ever know. Numbers are hard, that's a lot of math. 69, that's 31 plus 24, so 55 years. It's a long time for a 40 year old, you know it? It is a long time.
06:52
I don't know that I know anybody in the industry with more background and knowledge than you. So we're super happy to have you here. You know, we've known each other now basically since my start at CBM, which is going on 18 years now. And this relationship started with, you know, between you and Brett Cooper, who's been here at CBM going close on 20 years now. And then I think you
07:22
him started your relationship when he was at Graybar. He was at Graybar. 10 or 12 years prior to that. So I know you guys go a long way back. We go way back. Brett and I used to do some meetings with his customers. And we did a meeting in Columbia and we talked about our new fiber at that point in time. And we call it All Way Plus.
07:48
and I won't get into the specifics, but Brad and I have talked about this a number of times. Nobody ever thought they would need that fiber. It had capacity that they never thought they would ever, ever use. And you gotta go back. Initially, we were talking about 45 megabits. That's slow. Then it went to 90 megabits, then it went to 135. Then it became Sonnet.
08:18
And you read the papers today and people are talking about gigabits and terabits. So we've gone from 45 megabits to a billion or a trillion bits per second. And now doing it on one fiber instead of multiple. Yeah. I mean, so I've got, you know, just going back to the Telabs days and, you know, when I started in the industry, most of what we were doing was all sonnet rings, you know, but I...
08:47
I've just, a few years ago, I had a call from a customer that had an old, old fiber cable that was feeding an AFC cabinet and they thought they would just utilize that to feed a new subdivision. And they couldn't because, you know, that cable couldn't handle the new wavelengths that we're putting on. So, you know, a lot of times we talk about the longevity of fiber and the lifespan of fiber. And I don't know that they're truly.
09:16
is a lifespan, but as technology changes, obviously that first generation and second generation stuff is no longer in play. So what do you think's coming in those terms? Well, what happened with Brett and I in our presentations is we had a zero WaterPeak cable, which Brett's customer said, we'll never use that. Well, shortly thereafter, Corning, who is our main competitor, and make it.
09:45
a great product and great glass. They came out with an SMF 20AD, which mimicked ours, which gives you the full spectrum of any wave length that you want to use. And so that's what you're seeing people do. And we just keep stacking bandwidth and more bandwidth on the same cables. So you can take a cable and put a gigabit on it, you can put a terabit on it, it'll work.
10:14
What do you think is one of the main things that's made you so successful over the years?
10:23
I like my job. I like learning. I like the customers that I've come to know in the last 30 years. It's fun. I enjoy being around them and I still learn. And I pride myself in trying to know what my company does, what my competition does, and what my customers do. Because I want to get the first telephone call.
10:53
I want to have the first shot at it. And I think I've developed a reputation, good, bad, or indifferent, that people know me and they can call me up and I'll tell them the truth. May not like it, but I'll tell them the truth. You heard somebody tell me, you told me that today. I've heard a lot of truth. And I know we've talked in the past too about relationships. And I know that's a big part of what you do.
11:23
and what you've built your whole career on. Do you think today the relationships are as important as they used to be? I think, honestly, I think they're more important. I'm getting old. This market is being, you're seeing a lot of young people come in into the business and they text and they email. Yeah.
11:53
And a lot of people don't like that. A lot of people want to sit down and talk to you. I think you've got to keep that relationship going. And that's a struggle with some of the younger people that I see right now. And I don't want to sound nasty, but we've talked about that. They just do it different. They do. But not only just from the sales perspective, we see a lot of younger sales folks in the industry, but our customers are getting younger too.
12:23
And so, you know, sometimes I wonder if us old guys or maybe we're the issue, you know, we can't change our mind. Yeah, we're the problem. But, you know, I do think, you know, certain products and fiber cable can lead into this too, but, you know, the relationship I think is what keeps it from just being a commodity, right? Yes. And we never want to just sell commodity and just sell on price, but we have to deliver the value.
12:52
and you know, why, why OFS over X, Y or Z, right? So. Yeah. Nobody, no, nobody wants to admit they have a commodity product. There's, there's not a lot of difference right now. If I take a Corning glass and an OFS glass, they're both outstanding products. There's not a lot of difference. Corning can sell their glass to somebody. We can sell our glass to somebody. You put it in a cable.
13:21
you have a cable issue, who is going to support that cable? And we're going to support the cable, even if we sell it to somebody else. So you still have to have customer support out in the field. Well, and that's one thing that I've seen over the years. We don't have very many issues in terms of performance, but we have had a couple and every time OFS has stepped up and done the right thing for the customer and that's.
13:49
ultimately. That's the key thing. Nobody makes, nobody builds a perfect Cadillac every time. Sometimes you got a lemon. Cadillac better fix it. We're going to make a bad piece of cable and I've seen us make bad cable. I've called us out on it recently and you got to stand behind the product. Some people don't do that. We're going to stand behind it.
14:18
Yeah, and that's what's important. That's what helps build those relationships and moving forward. So, we certainly appreciate that from OFS. So, you said you're 77. A lot of people your age just can't wait to retire. What's kept you going so long? Quite honestly, the customer base that I have with distributors or CBM or contractors,
14:47
I've known them so long. These guys are family. And they know me. And they'll chase me down the aisle at a trade show, screaming at me. They're close to me. They're friends, they're family. I enjoy being around them. I'm 77. I'm widowed. My wife has been dead for four years. And I jokingly say, if I quit work, what am I going to do?
15:13
I've already seen all the law and orders. I've already seen all the NCISs. I've already seen the Big Bang Theory. I might as well work, because I like what I'm doing. And so I don't know that I ever want to retire. As long as I am mentally able to do the job and physically able to keep up with you, I want to do it.
15:37
So, well hang on a little past the mental part, because I think we might be able to take advantage of you a little bit. Just make up for some lost times, but. No, I think that's great. What would you say to someone then that doesn't like their job? Could you imagine, you know, being in the industry for- No, no, I don't know how you get up in the morning and go to work just to collect a paycheck. Yeah. I couldn't do that.
16:07
Did you stumble into the industry or were you intent on it? Because I know that's a challenge a lot of young folks face. They don't know what they wanna do, what's gonna make them happy. And it seems like, I for one kind of stumbled into it and fortunately it worked out, but how do you, when you're 20,
16:34
Determine what you want to do for the next 40 years or 50. Oh, I wasn't near that smart Yeah, I wasn't near that smart when I got out of college. I kind of had two career paths One was go to work for the safeguard missile system Or the army said they'd send me to MIT to get her doctorate in physics. I'm not a doctor I didn't want to go to MIT. Yeah And I hate to say this
17:04
I really didn't want to go to Vietnam. And so I, and that's awful to say, and I think about that a lot, because I somewhat regret it. But I learned a lot of things working at Cheyenne Mountain. Computers that we had there, IBM said they couldn't build. AT&T built the computers. Today on that laptop over there, you got more capacity on that laptop than we had on our
17:32
whole computer system that was tracking radars and missiles. So I just kind of fell into it. And working at Southwestern Bell was a great learning experience. And then when I went into sales, either with Western Electric or Raychem, I just kept learning. And I want to keep learning. There's new things out like Holocore ribbon and in multi-core.
17:58
multi-core fiber and holo-core fiber that I want to learn. So I enjoy this and I keep learning. Do you think that's the next revolution coming in the fiber world? Yes. Not to get into too much detail. Yes, but it's going to be a long time before you and I mess with holo-core. Okay. I won't be here then. Well, it certainly it's got my interest as well. You know, just.
18:27
It's crazy what they can do anymore in terms of the electronics. Well, Tim, you think back, I mentioned earlier, the largest cable we made was 144 fibers. It was a multi-mode ribbon. The largest cable we're making now is 6912. Yeah, that's insane. It's 200 micron. It's- Tall ribbon. Yeah, and it's an inch and a quarter in diameter.
18:57
and it has more capacity than you and I think we could ever use. Yeah. So it just keeps growing. You keep learning. This one makes it fun. Yeah. What do you think is one of the things that OFS does well? And what do you think is something they could improve on? You know, I think you talked about Corning and a lot of people, if you just said who makes the best fiber, a lot of people say Corning.
19:26
And I don't think it's necessarily because they make the best fiber. I think they have an extremely talented marketing team and they've done different programs. They have a great marketing team and they have a gigantic sales force. Yeah. Their product is no better than ours. We just don't have the marketing budget. The biggest issue that we've had in the last three or four years was during COVID with the shortage of fiber.
19:53
with COVID and people not being able to work, that really hurt us, it hurt the whole industry. Yeah, we weren't able to take orders and ship cable for about a year, yeah. Our marketing is not what we'd like it to be, but our customer support in the field is fantastic. It's better than anybody's. And nobody can touch what we do in the field.
20:21
Yeah, that's awesome.
20:27
What is it like working for CBM? You know, our culture is built around our ESOP. Employee ownership is something that we talk about every day. We empower our employees to make decisions, do what's right for their customers, do what's right for our manufacturers, and really, truly have an impact in our company. We've currently got some openings. If you're interested in working for a top quality rep firm here in the Midwest, we do have some openings. Go to our website and click on the careers tab and you can see what we have available.
20:56
Reach out to us here at cbmrep.com.
21:03
What do you think over the years, from a professional standpoint and from a personal standpoint, what are some of the key lessons that you've learned? Personal and professional? Yeah. OK. Here's a personal thing you learn over the years. And I'm sure this is something that you had to address when you were working. It's something all salespeople have to address.
21:33
You got a wife and kid, our kids at home, and you make a decision, am I going to be comfortable leaving my wife with two kids, three kids, four kids at home to raise while I'm out in their minds? To party every day? Party and going out and drinking beer at night and leave the kids at home with your wife. That's something that anytime I talk to a young salesperson, I will tell them.
22:01
you gotta make sure that you're ready to do this. You gotta make sure your marriage is strong. You gotta make sure that your wife can handle this because I did some things over the years with my wife when she was raising three daughters that I regret. And you can't get that time back. So that's one of the personal things I've learned.
22:23
That's it. That balance is a challenge for everybody. It is a balance. I struggle with the same thing. And for all the wives listening, it's not a party every day. We do have to entertain customers and do different things like that. And sure, it's great, but being in a hotel room every night of the week and not being at home is not a party. So I think we all struggle with that. I think anybody getting into any career needs to look at that.
22:52
And see, I already had three kids by the time I got into sales. When I worked at Southwestern Bail, I was at home every night. When I moved to the sales job at Western Electric, I traveled as much as I want to. I can still travel as much as my budget will allow me to. And even though it's Bismarck in February, when it's 20 below, or it's northern Minnesota, Lake of the Woods fishing.
23:22
You know, you're still on, you're still gone. Yeah. Yep, we struggled with that. I just missed my daughter's basketball game last night. You know, just, it's a struggle to make everything fit and balanced, so. We hired a new sales guy about five or six years ago and he called me up and asked me about it. I said, you got young kids? He said, yeah. I said, are they into baseball, softball, soccer? He said, yeah.
23:51
said, think you can miss the games? You be fine with it? He said, I think I can travel two days a month and I'll be good. So after about two months, I called him up and I said, how's this two days a month going for you? Because he was gone four days a week. And you just gotta adapt. And I think I've mentioned this before, but when I was hired on here at CBM,
24:21
My wife was invited down for an interview as well. And it's for that very reason, is the family dynamic, are you going to be able to handle that while Tim's on the road? And I respect that. That's one of the things that stuck with me about CBM over the years, because that dynamic matters. How are we going to be able to support our customers if we're not even able to support ourselves at home? And...
24:49
be gone to take care of them. So it's a touchy subject, but. CBM is the only other company besides Raychem that I've heard did that. When I interviewed with Raychem, I was in Dallas and they interviewed my wife three times. And we had functions as you guys do where your spouse has come. Now maybe it's once a year, maybe it's twice a year.
25:18
one of the faults we have with our company is we're so dispersed. I don't know anybody's wife. I've never met any wife, any girlfriend, any mistress. I don't know. Some of them you don't need to meet. I don't know any of them. And I think that's sad that we don't know the family. We've had times where we've had the spouse in and.
25:43
By the time we left dinner, we were wishing we could have the spouse. Maybe get a package deal. No, that's definitely important something to think about when you're on the road. So were your girls in sports and did you have to miss a bunch of that stuff or? Swimming. Swimming? All the time. Yeah. Swim practice every day. When I went to work for Ray Kim, I was able to make a lot more practices with them.
26:12
but your whole weekend was tied up. Anybody's got kids that are swimming, you know what I mean. And soccer's the same way. Baseball tournaments, when you have a double elimination, it's over a four-day tournament. It's all the same. I mean, it doesn't matter the sport anymore. It's just, it's- It's a commitment of time. Yeah, the money that we dump into it is crazy. Do you regret any of it? Would you change it? Would you have done something else and stayed home? Or, I mean, it seems to have worked out.
26:42
It's worked out good for me. I've enjoyed it, or I wouldn't be doing it now. There's things that look back over 50 years, there's things I probably could have done different. But man, I had a lot of fun. I went places like Dan Lavac was on one of your podcasts. Dan and I went to Okinawa in Japan for two weeks and trained the Marine Corps and Navy bases over there.
27:12
I would have never done that. Went to Mexico City and worked with him in Mexico City. Went to Singapore and showed him how to splice copper. I would have never had an opportunity like that. And so I regret the load it had on my family, but I love my job. I've loved it. I think too, the family, I mean, it's all part of that balance, but when you're gone a lot,
27:41
does kind of become expected. I mean, it gets, I don't know, they probably don't like it, but it's tolerated and it's expected. And as long as you're present when you're home, I think that makes up for some of the time you're gone, or at least that's what I tell myself. Let's hope that's the way they feel. I don't know. It was stressful on my wife. It was. And I think it's stressful on anybody's wife. Yeah.
28:07
So yeah, there's a lot to running the kids around and getting them to all the different places Did your wife work too or no? He did when we were in Houston after the third child. She didn't work Okay, I remember when I was in Singapore for two weeks my dad came down and Stayed with Pat and the girls and When I got back he says I don't know how Pat keeps up with all this stuff She's going someplace all the time
28:36
And so he recognized it was a load. Yeah. Well, sometimes as parents, we just have to say no though too. So how often do you say no? I never. Did you get that barn painted yet? Yeah. No, I have the same challenge, but there's a lot of times I'm like, why do we just, we do it to ourselves. We could just maybe bring her down a notch, but.
29:04
See, one thing you could do, and I don't know who you talk to about this, but you can invite your kids to come to the Christmas party and let them meet the rest of them. Yeah. My son, so we always have a summer kind of party. And years ago, we had one of the VPs hosted this party at their house and the families were all invited. And my son...
29:34
made quite the debut, I'll say that. Yeah, that day will not be long forgotten. So he made quite the impression. But I think something they'll remember. Yeah. We used to go Lake of the Ozarks at Ray Kim and his wife and kids, and we spent a long weekend down there. And the kids enjoyed it.
29:58
because they met the people that I worked with and they knew everybody. It was a good environment. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we do the summer picnic and then we do the year-end party as well. Not a ton of opportunities though. Also you've got people spread out across the whole Midwest. We do planning sessions. We're currently in that season now. So we do a year-end planning where we look at what's going on next year.
30:28
create our budgets, et cetera. And then we come back in the summertime and kind of look at where we're at compared to what we said we were gonna do. And so those two times a year, we've got at least everybody on the team. But I think that's important because you get a guy that's up in Nebraska, away from the office, kind of on his own little island, it's hard for them to.
30:54
feel like part of the team, even though they are part of the team, that's one of the challenges keeping them involved. You see, we're spread out much more than that because we're a guy in Seattle, we got one in San Jose, we got them in Dallas, we got them in Boston, we've got them spread all over the country. So we talked a little bit about, you know, personal lessons, but what are some of the professional lessons you've learned?
31:19
This, what can a sales guy do now? What can they do the right way to, what advice would you give a young sales guy? Can you turn it off?
31:34
I remember in 1982, 1983, we had one computer in our office that my sales group were supposed to share. It sat over in a credenza. I swore I would never use a computer. I never want a cell phone. They're just, I don't want them. They're in my way. Fighting the medicine. Yeah. Now I was one of those.
32:03
on the opposite end. Now I'm on the computer six days, seven days a week. I can't live without my cell phone. Yep. I can't take vacation. I was going to be on vacation today. Oh, well I'm glad you chose to be here. This is your fault. But I carry my cell phone with me everywhere I go.
32:29
You and I talk at 8.30 at night. She and I talk. Marla and I talk at 7.30 at night. Cooper and I talk whenever he wants to. But I have- Cooper's a night owl, so it could be two in the morning and he'll- I have customers that call me. I have a conference call Thursday afternoon at four o'clock with Japan. I'm on vacation, but I have a conference call with Japan Thursday afternoon. So you have to learn to turn it off. The only way I can turn it off-
32:59
is to run over my phone and throw my computer away because I still enjoy doing it. And if I don't do it and I come back in a week, it's you never catch up. You can't do it. So is the answer to turn it off or not turn it off? You didn't really give me any clarity. I'm not, if you want time with your family, turn it off.
33:27
I think, you know, the employers need to understand that too. I think it's healthy. You know, if you're going to take a week's vacation, take a week's vacation. I think from the employer standpoint, we need to honor that and, you know, give the people the space to not think about things. It's not my management. Yeah. My customers, my friends.
33:54
my family, they don't know I'm on vacation and they don't care. And you care, so you want to answer that phone call. What kind of things, if we go back to that prehistoric era of work, like before email and all those phones and everything we have now, what have been some of those major changes in just how you work day to day?
34:22
you know, 30 years ago to 40 years ago to now. Could you turn it off a lot easier then? Let's go back to the 1980s. I'm in Dallas. I'm working for Western Electric. I have responsibility for North Texas, meaning Dallas up to Denton over to Tyler and Longview. I had three districts that I was accountable for.
34:52
My VP asked me one time, Mike, how many phone calls do you get a day? I said, I have no idea, probably 20 or 25. He said, how many are division level or higher? I said, I don't know, I don't count them. I said, they're phone calls. And he said, any phone call you get from a lower level manager and you answer it,
35:24
That didn't go over real well in the conversation. He did not like that. And it's a poor, poor stance to take. I learned, I return every phone call I can. Some of them I'll laugh. I told one guy in a presentation, and Cooper heard this, I said, that's the dumbest question I've ever had.
35:49
But we covered that before. We always get an honest answer. Yeah, but I explained why. And he said, I didn't think you could get out of that lamb, but you did. Yeah. So I don't know. Have I learned anything? Probably not. But I've learned how to do the job the way I think it should be done. Yeah. Well, and I think that speaks volumes. So you obviously are a man that has
36:18
core values and certain things that are important to you and you stick by those? I do. Yeah. I don't want us putting a bad product in the field. Yeah. I don't want it out there. Yeah. We need to fix it. We need to take it back. We need to do whatever we can to make it good. Yeah. And I've been around long enough. I know something is bad by looking at it. I can tell. Yeah. And I'll do everything I can to get it fixed.
36:46
Yeah, well, and I know from a rep standpoint and you know, your partner in this deal, that matters as much to us as it does to you. So we thank you for that. You're welcome. What do you do in terms of personal growth? I know you like to try to stay on top of, you know, what's coming, but how do you continue to grow personally? Business wise, I read everything I can get my hands on.
37:14
We get a newsletter every day that tells us what's going on in the market. For instance, this week they announced that Italy's tied together 21 islands with fiber for fiber to the home. And you have all these gigabit and terabit trials that are going on, not just in the US, but in the world with anybody's product.
37:40
I stay on top of that. That's the best I can do. Anything I want to learn at OFS right now is hollow core and multi-core. I want to get on top of that. I do not deal with subsea cable, never dealt with it. We make the glass, but I know absolutely nothing about subsea. I would like to know more about that. What other products other than just fiber do you track and try to learn about?
38:09
We're now working on a product for apartment buildings. And we've had significant trials going on. Big one in Kansas, a big one in Iowa. We're going into North Dakota, South Dakota, and putting fiber into the apartment buildings. Because as you see them grow fiber to the home, and with all this bead money, you're going to see this really take off. Yeah.
38:37
The MDUs have been a challenge for a lot of folks how to get fiber into those apartments. There's two challenges. MDU is hard to do. And the second thing is it's a long-term sale. It's a salesperson, you want a big bang for the buck right now. And MDUs are a long-term sale and you're doing it a building at a time. So it takes a while to get the business up. But then you take a small town and
39:06
Iowa that's done a half a million dollars in MDUs in the last four or five years. Well, there's so many different people involved too. So what could be, I mean, down to the builder level or the owner level. The owner level, yeah. You know, if it's a new building going up, you know, you've got to get in touch with the contractor that's putting that building in so you can get the infrastructure in the building in the first place versus, you know, an existing building. There's...
39:35
a lot of different challenges. Well, you've got to get fiber service to the building. Then you have to have buy-in from the building owner. Yeah. Hey, I can put this piece of hardware up. Yeah. And the owner says, hey, that looks good. I can accept that. If it's this big, he doesn't want it in this hallway. Yeah. It's small and blends in, but you got to get buy-in from the owner, from the provider of the fiber. And the people, and we've been in some crazy apartments.
40:03
Some that are really nice, but some that's got Nazi flags hanging on the wall. We've seen a little bit of everything in them, but everybody wants, they want the service into their apartment. Yeah. Well, and sometimes then you have an owner that wants to keep it open. You know, in a big city, you might have several providers. So they want to keep it open so their tenants have options. Yeah. So, let's talk a little bit about mentors.
40:33
Do you have any that stick out to you? I do. The first guy that I worked with that was really instrumental in teaching me was at Southwestern Mill. Okay. Because even though I didn't like working there, I respected him and he taught me a lot. And...
40:58
The guys at Southwestern Bell knew I really didn't know much about telephone sin, and they worked with me. I'd go out and fill with them and I'd learn. I learned a lot there. The first guy that I worked for at Western Electric and Sales, I'm going to do a presentation, and I'm really skeptical about this presentation. He said, Lamb, he says, no matter how nervous you are, remember, you know more than they do.
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And I still talk to him and I haven't worked for him since 1986 and we still remember that conversation. I've worked with good people at Ray Kim that taught me a lot. Every job I've gone to I've learned more and more and more. And there's people at Atlanta and Bell Labs that I still go to and learn more and more about fiber and about cable. So.
41:55
I latch on to people that can teach me something. Yeah. So let's turn that around. What are you doing to mentor others? I guess, who's going to fill your shoes? What are you doing to fill that role? I know personally, you've done a lot with me and we've worked a ton over the years and I've learned a ton about fiber from you. But in terms of filling your role, is there anybody you're working with or trying to- No, there's not. And that's unfortunate.
42:27
I don't know how that's going to work. Yeah. You and I have discussed it, Marla and Brett and I have discussed it. I've discussed it with the striverters. I don't know how that works out. I've worked the way I do. Yeah. You work the way you do. The next guy that comes in is not going to work the way I do. Yeah. Well, that's been a challenge. You know, one of my challenges as I've moved up into more leadership role is
42:55
realizing that. So the people that are taking over, you know, what you've done over the years is so personal to you and you know how you did it. But then, you know, the next guy comes in and he's not going to do it anything like you did. And it's, it's a challenge to just let them go with it, you know, and not want to, not want to jump in and redirect things. So you and I have to accept the fact.
43:22
that six months after I'm gone or you're gone, your history. Yeah. And what Mike Lamb did or what Tim Locker did, it don't matter. Yeah. Because Joe Smoll was going to do it this way. Yeah, but it matters right now to us. Yeah, it matters to me. Yeah. But I can't clone Mike Lamb, and I'm not sure it's the right way to do it. Yeah. It's just the way I do it.
43:47
Well, and I know that Cooper and I, that's one thing that we've talked about is we're hiring folks too. I think we try to hire ourselves when we look for somebody new and that's what we're looking for. But the younger generation is taking over the industry. And so maybe hiring old guys like us ain't the right answer. I don't know. We've hired some people that I knew within 30 minutes.
44:16
with this guy that he's not who we should have hired. Yeah. Yeah, it's a challenge for everyone. It is. What is one, what's one thing that, what's one assumption that people make about your job that you think is unfair or not accurate? That it's easy. Yeah, I've had people say, Lamb, you've got it made.
44:45
You sell a lot of cable. It's not easy. Yeah. There's a lot to manage. Yeah. Just traveling around with you this morning, you know, your phone's got, you probably have a dozen voicemails right now. I turned it off and left it outside because there would have been a lot of finger-raising if I hadn't have done that. Yeah. So. Yeah. So, yeah. And, you know, I think too, you know, it's a party every day thing. I think that's a big...
45:15
misconception as well. But it is. It's a party with me every day. I have stressful times. But when I get on the phone with a customer, it's always a party. Well, that's the right attitude to have about it. It is. But from the spouse's perspective, I mean, it's not a party. No. But it is work. It's just, it's fortunate to have customers that you.
45:44
like to deal with and are happy to talk to, they're more friends than they are customers. They're family, a lot of them are family. And do you think there's, I've been told in the past that you have to be careful of that balance between customer business relationship and friend. Do you think that's necessarily true? Like, is there a danger of going too far in the relationship or do you?
46:10
Do you think it's? I don't think that's an issue with me. No, maybe it's a luxury that I've earned over this period of time, because if a customer calls me up and asks me a question, I'm going to give them a straight answer. And if I don't get the sale, I'm going to give them the best answer. You don't want to talk to me about this. You heard me tell a guy today that you know you can get this product cheaper from somebody else because we don't make it. Yeah.
46:37
And how many times have you and I had that discussion? Several. So I don't let it, it's all the same. I'm not gonna lie to anybody about it. Yeah, that's one of my values too. And that's one of the things I appreciate about you is, sharing that same value. I mean, a lot of times people think I'm lying, but I don't. And I think you've certainly earned the right and the respect.
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of your customers and friends and family. So I think it's awesome. So. Thank you. Yeah. Well, we'll wrap this up, but thanks again, Mike. I appreciate you so much coming in here and you are part of our family. So. I'll never do this again, Locker. Well, we got her done. So thank you. You're welcome. All right.
47:33
Thanks again for joining us on power the network and a special thanks to Mike lamb You know we treasure this relationship with Mike and he's like he said in the episode he's More than just a manufacturer. He's part of our family here at CBM and and Thank you Mike so much. We love you. Thank you for joining us You know remember we drop episodes every other Thursday on power the network you can find us on YouTube LinkedIn
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Apple podcasts, etc. Give us a like, comment, subscribe, let us know what you want to see. We want to hear from you and bring you what you want. And remember, if you need help with a project or expertise, Salesforce, to represent your line, look no further than CBM. You can find us at CBFrep.com. Thanks again for joining us on Power of the Network. And remember, until next time, we'll see you next time.
